John 15:8 - when all is said and done: abide

In concluding this series with John 15:8, we’re finishing with perhaps what has been the most awkward and challenging verse in the gospel of John to interpret. There are quite a number of variations in the treatment of this verse, with the many versions offering seemingly divergent translations. The following examples will help to illustrate the proliferation of variant renderings.

A number of translations see the bearing of much fruit bringing glory to God and thus proving one is a disciple:

“By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be My disciples.” (ESV)

“This is to My Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be My disciples.” (NIV)

Other translations would seem to indicate one is a disciple only after bearing much fruit, leaving some question as to when the Father receives glory:

“When you produce much fruit, you are My true disciples. This brings great glory to My Father.” (NLT)

“By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.” (NKJV)

Some translations appear to indicate that the Father’s glorification will come about from two separate, albeit related, future results:

“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit and become My disciples.” (NRSV)

“In this is My Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit, and ye shall become disciples of Mine.” (Darby)

Some translations appear to render a meaning unique to them:

“You give glory to My Father when you produce a lot of fruit and therefore show that you are My disciples.” (GW) [while the latter half seems similar to the NIV and ESV school, the variant here is “You give glory”]

“This is how My Father shows who He is - when you produce grapes, when you mature as My disciples.” (MSG) [the “grapes” is understandably in keeping with the vineyard imagery, but the opening phrase indicates a revealing of the Father, not the glorification of the Father, as standard with the other translations]

“Here is My Father's glory, in that you give much fruit and so are My true disciples.” (BBE) [“give” is unique to this translation, questionable in light of the fact that the Greek term pherō is found 64 times in the NT, with the usage typically consistent with the definition of “bear, bring forth, bring, etc.”]

“My Father has been glorified in this: in your bearing much fruit and becoming My disciples.” (AB) [the glorification of the Father is past tense, fitting with the apparent acknowledgement of having already borne much fruit and already attained discipleship]

Why so many variations and interpretations? Let’s take a look at a more literal rendering of the Greek text, as that will help to shed some light on why this verse has seen such diverse translations:

“By this was glorified the Father of Me, that fruit much you bear and you be to Me disciples.” (Interlinear)

“In this was My Father glorified, that ye may bear much fruit, and ye shall become My disciples.” (YLT)

The awkwardness of the sentence structure is seen in the glorification of the Father written in the aorist tense, indicating completion, while both the bearing of much fruit and becoming disciples is very much a forward looking, continuing process. This would beg the question, then, how has the Father already received His glory, when the results are yet in the future? Compounding the confusion, were not the 11 men Jesus was speaking to at this time already His disciples?

Granted this verse may seem very confusing, it’s difficult to render smoothly into our grammatical structure, and it’s noteworthy the considerable amount of effort taken by translators to render a reading that is easily understood and that flows reasonably well in our modern English. However, perhaps too much focus has been on making the mechanics of the translation fit properly, rather than accepting the awkwardness and focusing instead on the meaning. Seen this way, the awkwardness actually works, particularly when considered in the light of the previous verses.

There is a strong sense of completion and matter-of-factness in this seemingly complex verse. The aorist tense indicates a certainty or customariness of an action, glorification being the focus here. While the bearing of fruit and becoming disciples of Jesus is clearly future looking, the glorification of the Father is written in the aorist tense, indicating completion, providing a concluding sense of fulfillment. In other words, “It is finished.” How is that the case?

It is a foregone conclusion: the Father will be glorified. It is so certain and established that it can be written as having already been completed:

John 12:28 “Father, glorify your name.’ Then a voice came from heaven: ‘I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again’.” (ESV)

God was glorified in the work of His Son:

John 17:4 “I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do.” (ESV)

Furthermore, God is and will continue to be glorified in the lives of disciples who abide in His Son:

John 17:10 “All I have is yours and all you have is mine, and in them [the disciples] I am glorified.” (NJB)

The Father’s glory cannot be diminished nor can it be increased – He is eternal (both in terms of eternal past and eternal future) and unchangeable. He is not confined to our laws of time and space, the past and the future being products of our finite nature. He exists. He is. He is God. He is glorified.

Psa 90:2,4 “Before the mountains were born or You gave birth to the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God…For a thousand years in Your sight are like yesterday when it passes by.” (NASB)

Not only did He exist before the world began, He established us for His purpose and His glory, far before we ever existed:

Isa 43:7 “Everyone who is called by My name, whom I created for My glory, whom I formed and made.” (ESV)

Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you.” (NASB)

Eph 2:10 “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” (ESV)

It is long-established fact that God has been glorified, and the work that He as the Vinedresser is doing in our lives, has already been determined and is so certain in outcome, that He has already been glorified and will continue to be glorified.

Those of us who are true believers should take comfort and confidence in that. For if it truly is so established that He will be glorified in our lives, then clearly we can see why Paul stated:

Phil1:6 “And I am sure of this, that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.” (ESV)

Just as true with the disciples then, we as Christians today have the opportunity to partake in the glorification of the Father. Yet how is it that we as humans can bring glory to God? Clearly we can not add to His glory, as He is perfect and matchless glory. There is no lack of glory in Him, nor is there any new glory that we can somehow ascribe to Him, as He is infinite glory.

The glorification of the Father is assured through our continual and steadfast abiding in Jesus, coupled with the abiding of His presence and His words in us. The Father was glorified in the redemptive work of the Son; and now that the Son has accomplished the mission set forth for Him by the Father, the Father will continue to be glorified in the furthering of the mission through us, His Son’s disciples.

In John’s gospel, “to glorify” is the term doxazō (the root for "doxology"), and is usually in the context of either the time of Jesus’ glorification (His death and resurrection), or the Father’s glorification in the Son. Here in verse 8, the Father is glorified by our derivative relationship through His Son. We bring glory to the Son by abiding in Him and thereby bearing much fruit. He brings glory to the Father through His accomplishing of the Father’s mission, the redemption of His creation. The bearing of much fruit, then, is evidence that we as His follower are indeed true disciples, resulting in God being glorified – as it’s His work all along. It’s not our work. We don’t bring glory to God directly as a result of our own actions. It’s a function of our abiding in Jesus, the Vine.

“Bear much fruit” and “become My disciples” should not be understood to be two separate actions or outcomes. We don’t become disciples through bearing much fruit; nor do we bear much fruit after becoming disciples. We bear much fruit as we become disciples, and as we become disciples, we should be bearing much fruit. They are interrelated, two indicative results of the interabiding relationship we are to have with Jesus. The bearing of much fruit is the external manifestation and evidence of one who is becoming a disciple.

The word disciple comes from the Greek mathētēs, meaning “pupil or learner,” derived from manthanō, which means “to learn.”

The Father is glorified both in our bearing much fruit and in our continuing to be disciples. The change in mood/tense indicates discipleship is not static, but a growing and developing way of life. This side of heaven there is no “attainment level” whereby we have become disciples. It is a never-ending process of becoming until He returns or takes us home. A true disciple is one who is continually becoming more fully a true disciple. Consider the statement of Ignatius of Antioch (circa 110) when on the road to martyrdom, “Now I am beginning to be a disciple.”

As we abide in Jesus and begin to bear fruit as evidence of our discipleship, we quickly realize how much our growth is a direct result of His work in us. In a vineyard or a vine that bears much fruit, the owner is glorified, as it tells of his skill and care. In the disciple who bears much fruit, the Father is glorified. That is only right and good. After all, it is His work in us that accomplishes His will.

What is the nature of this fruit that we will bear? Much debate has been engendered over this “much fruit.” Some have held strongly that this fruit can only refer to the souls of those converted by our witness and testimony, pointing to:

Rom 1:13 “I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that often I have planned to come to you (and have been prevented so far) so that I may obtain some fruit among you also, even as among the rest of the Gentiles.” (NASB)

Paul's purpose in going to Rome was that he might “have a harvest” among the people there. Since he went on to say that this harvest would be a continuation of the harvest he had had among other Gentiles, some conclude that he was referring to an evangelistic outreach that would bring people to faith in Christ. While that may be a valid understanding, it should be noted that John 15:8 refers to the disciple bearing much fruit, while this Romans passage relate to obtain fruit in terms of harvest of others.

Some have held that the fruit is a life of obedience to His instructions, a conclusive likeness to Jesus being manifested in our lives. As we grow in holiness and obedience, we are bearing fruit:

Rom 6:22 “But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.” (ESV)

Some simply see the answered prayers of verse 7 as the fruit, while some have zeroed in on love, the greatest commandment (Matt 22:38), as the verses immediately following this mashal discuss abiding in His love.

Some claim Jesus was alluding to the fruit of the Spirit during the course of His Farewell teachings, as He spoke of love (15: 9-10,12,17), joy (vs. 11) and peace (14:27), the first triad of the fruit of the Spirit:

Gal 5:22-23 “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.”

Some have pointed out that Paul considered Christian giving to be fruit from a dedicated life:

Rom 15:28 “Therefore, when I have finished this, and have put my seal on this fruit of theirs, I will go on by way of you to Spain.” (NASB)

Paul was on his way back to Jerusalem (Acts 19:21), where he would deliver the financial gift that the Gentile churches in Macedonia and Achaia had gathered for the needy Jewish believers.

It’s doubtful that any of these above ideas are completely wrong, yet all of them are likely far too narrow in scope, taken by themselves. While “yes” to all of the above, in reality, this “much fruit” encompasses any deeds, attitudes, words, prayers, etc. that bring glory and praise to God, whether from us or through us:

Matt 5:16 “In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.” (NIV)

Col 1:10 “And so be able to lead a life worthy of the Lord, a life acceptable to Him in all its aspects, bearing fruit in every kind of good work and growing in knowledge of God.” (NJB)

Heb 13:15 “Through Him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge His name.” (ESV)

In closing, while the Father receives the glory brought about from the bearing of much fruit, we cannot ignore the impact to others. We must bear in mind that the branches do not eat the fruit: others do. We are not producing fruit to please ourselves but to serve others. Consider if others are fed and served by the fruit you bear:

Pro 10:21 “The lips of the righteous feed many…” [consider the "fruit of lips" from the above verse in Hebrews]

So what kind of fruit are we bearing?

Luke 6:43-44 “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.”

We don’t bear fruit for our benefit or to serve ourselves, just as we haven’t been given spiritual gifts for our own good, but for the good of the body of believers in Christ (1 Cor 12:7; Eph 4:12). Are we offering good, sweet, strengthening fruit, or are we offering bitter and stunted fruit that lacks nourishment?

Matt 7:16 “You will know them by their fruits.”

May we bear much good fruit, and so prove we are becoming His disciples, as we steadfastly abide in Him, the True Vine.